SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
The U.S. has launched strikes on Iran's nuclear capabilities and its leadership in what President Trump calls, quote, "massive and ongoing" attack. Tehran is retaliating with missiles aimed at Israel, which joined the U.S. in the attacks and at U.S. bases in the region. Is this war? If so, will Congress have anything to say about that? We're joined now by Tim Kaine, Democrat of Virginia. Senator, thanks so much for being with us.
TIM KAINE: Absolutely, Scott.
SIMON: How much notice did you receive as a member of Congress about these strikes?
KAINE: Zero. The evidence suggests that the secretary of state called the speaker of the House, and that was it. We did not receive notice. I'm a member of both the Armed Services and Foreign Relations Committee, and no one from the administration has reached out.
SIMON: Could you see where that would be a security concern?
KAINE: No, especially since the Constitution says we're not supposed to be at war without a vote of Congress. The White House knew that I had a war powers resolution scheduled for vote by the Senate early next week. I assume they wanted to try to rush the initiation of an illegal war before Congress had a chance to vote on it.
SIMON: A person briefed on the matter says that Israel's assessment is that the Iranian supreme leader was, quote, "hit." Do you have any knowledge of that?
KAINE: No, I don't. I do know that Israel decided that its - one of its roles in this was a concerted effort to carry out assassinations against major leaders. The U.S. has been down that path before to disastrous results. And my first reaction when I heard the news early this morning was, has the United States learned nothing from 25 years of unproductive wars in the Middle East? Have we paid no attention to the fact that it essentially cost us lives and treasure to no avail? And why would we put our sons and daughters back into risk for no legitimate reason?
SIMON: You're calling for Congress to return to formally vote on war powers. Your resolution would block the use of U.S. forces in hostilities against Iran. Forgive me for being colloquial, but hasn't that horse already left the barn?
KAINE: Well, the War Powers Resolution, which was passed by Congress in the early 1970s, allows Congress to direct the withdrawal of U.S. forces from hostilities. And it was designed to either be called up before the initiation of hostilities or after. It's a privileged motion, which means it's guaranteed a vote. It was scheduled to be voted on early next week, likely Tuesday or Wednesday. But given that the hostilities have started, I've called for Congress to return immediately to vote on the bipartisan resolution. I filed it together with Kentucky Republican Senator Rand Paul. There's a similar resolution in the House. This is important. Our lives are - the lives of our troops are at risk. We ought to come back to Washington right away and vote on this.
SIMON: Of course, these attacks are coming after widespread popular demonstrations there against the government and a brutal crackdown, which took thousands of lives. Could this, in fact, be an opportune time for the U.S., for all kinds of interests to move against the regime in Tehran?
KAINE: You can move against the regime with sanctions, and we have, but there's more we can do. There are other ways to move against the regime. But the question is, are those protests President Trump's desire to change a regime, to maybe seize oil assets, to counter a nuclear program, which he said was obliterated six months ago, are those worth risking the lives of our sons and daughters? I think you can be against the Iranian regime and all their misbehavior and impose tough consequences on them for that without risking the lives of American troops. Virginians feel that strongly, and we're one of the most pro-military states in the country. I know what my constituents are saying - enough with endless wars in the Middle East. I suspect voters in other parts of the country are saying the same thing - this is not worth risking the lives of American troops.
SIMON: And do you believe that this is an operation that's headed for failure?
KAINE: I don't know whether it's headed for failure, and I think it would be a long time to decide whether it's a failure or success. You know, we had initial success when we invaded Iraq, and yet now most look at that invasion as one of the most strategic blunders the United States has made since the war in Vietnam. We were greeted as, quote, "liberators" at the front. It ended up destabilizing the region, taking away a check against Iranian aggression, and allowing Iran to expand its power in the region. Who knows whether it's destined for success or failure, but this is nothing that we should commit Americans lives to.
SIMON: Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia. Senator, thanks so much for being with us.
KAINE: Absolutely. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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